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Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Comparing apples to oranges: The Madrigal murders and the Mendoza hostage affair

Filipinos have been mounting a bit of an inward reflection and soul-searching in the face of overwhelming shame brought about by the appallingly incompetent handling of the August 23 Mendoza hostage incident that resulted in the unnecessary deaths of eight foreign tourists. Something interesting was dug up by the mostly half-witted efforts in this exercise taken by some Philippine apologists and triumphalists — the murder of two Filipino tourists in Beijing back in 2005.

One such apologist-cum-triumphalist is blogger Reyna Elena. I don’t know what kind of point blogger Elena was trying to make when he wrote an article highlighting the murder in Beijing of Filipino tourists Emmanuel Madrigal and his daughter Regina Mia in August 19, 2005. For the benefit of those looking for a more reliable account of this incident, the Madrigal case was mentioned in an August 2008 news article published in Mclatchydc.com that reported the stabbing to death in Beijing of Todd Bachman, father-in-law of the head coach of the U.S. Olympic volleyball team.

Just like the attack on Bachman, the attack that resulted in the death of the Madrigal father and daughter seemed to be a random act, although there is some speculation that the Madrigals were victims of an unfortunate case of mistaken identity (excerpt quoted from Mclatchydc.com):

Violent crime against foreigners rarely occurs in China. A Canadian model was murdered last month in Shanghai, reportedly after she came upon a robbery.

The last known fatal knife attack against foreigners occurred on April 19, 2005, when a man ran amok near the Mao Zedong Mausoleum in Tiananmen Square, stabbing to death an oil executive and his daughter from the Philippines, Emmanuel Madrigal and Regina Mia. The attack occurred following a spate of anti-Japanese rioting in major cities in China, and Filipino relatives said they believed the victims were mistaken for Japanese tourists.

The 25-year-old assailant, Wang Gongzuo, was later sentenced to death.

What is quite interesting here is how this incident is now being bandied around the Internet by people like “Reyna Elena” as some sort of perverse apples-to-oranges accounting of which country did what “better” as far as the handling of the respective cases vis-à-vis accountability over the outcome.

Let’s say for argument’s sake that there is a valid basis for making such comparisons between the way Chinese authorities handled the Madrigal and Bachman murders and the way Philippine authorities handled the Mendoza hostage affair. It would then be worth considering the following two questions to put things in perspective:

(1) Were there government authorities and other parties (such as the Media) involved and in a position to influence the outcome of the incident during the period that said incident transpired? If so;

(2) Was there anything that clearly could have been done by said involved parties to change the tragic outcome of said incident?

In the case of the tourist murders in Beijing, the answer to Question Number One is a NO and as such there is no point in even considering Question Number 2.

In the case of the Mendoza hostage incident, the response to both questions is a resounding YES.

I’ll spell it out. The Philippine Government, the Philippine Police, and the Philippine Media, were all involved in and actively influencing the Mendoza hostage incident as it transpired. The same thing cannot be said about the tragic sequence of events that led to the slaying of Bachman and the Madrigals.

Clearly there is no basis for comparing Beijing to Manila as far as handling such incidents.

Most likely the above points will be lost in a people renowned for a lack of a convincing tradition of accountability — both at a personal level and at a societal level. But then there is a point to be made nonetheless — even if it flies over the head of the average Filipino schmoe.

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About the Author

benign0 has written 128 stories on this site.

benign0 is the webmaster of GetRealPhilippines.com.

Comments on “Comparing apples to oranges: The Madrigal murders and the Mendoza hostage affair”

  • Lorenz wrote on 29 August, 2010, 6:53

    Hmm… referring to the Filipino tourists who died, that was a murder and not a hostage taking right? They are very different things. Hostage requires negotiations. Murder is simply murder. I say it’s damage control for the one bringing this up..

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  • reyna elena wrote on 29 August, 2010, 7:19

    Hi Benigno,

    “One such apologist-cum-triumphalist is blogger Reyna Elena. I don’t know what kind of point blogger Elena was trying to make when he wrote an article highlighting the murder in Beijing of Filipino tourists Emmanuel Madrigal and his daughter Regina Mia in August 19, 2005.”

    It’s been awhile. Thank you for the mention. I’m getting hits from all over the place. But the mention though is misplaced, wrong, erroneous. You just want my attention. Making mistakes never happens with Benigno, di ba? Next time kasi, you have to read. What happened to you? Kaya nga AUTHOR: UNKNOWN, dahil I don’t know who wrote the article, for all I know, maybe it was just another Benigno strategy, to write something up, spread it on FB hahaha and then hit back.

    Anyway, from forwarded emails, this has been floating on FB and and I got this from the FB updates of Aurora Pijuan. Ok. So, what are you gonna do now, write up an article against Aurora Pijuan? Hahaha! Benigno, move on! Anyway, I’m sure you got the point of the article. You’re just in denial my best friend forever.

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    benign0 Reply:

    Indeed, Reyna Elena, benign0 don’t make no mistakes — unless of course you can cite specific examples of such errors to which I will be a sport and acknowledge said errors.

    Of course this article’s been floating around. And you just happen to have caught wind of it and re-posted it on B7. But then what exactly does one wish to convey when one re-posts an entire article in its entirety with only “This is a re-post from FB Updates of a friend” as a lead into it? My interpretation of any lack of commentary originating from you, the author of the re-post, is that said re-post reflects your own sentiments on all counts.

    By the way, now that you mentioned it, consider this article addressed to Aurora Pijuan too then. Then again, like you, she’s put a hugas-kamay disclaimer on it as well: “Don’t shoot the messenger, ok?”

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    The Philippine Guild Reply:

    Seemingly passive, that Reyna Elena, and yet active enough to repost revealing a sentiment that belies the seemingly passive veil. Perhaps, his reposting itch, much like the way everyone does online, is really an active sentiment which reminds me of the active sentiment that some Filipino students and police men showed when they took pictures of themselves with the infamous hostage-taking crisis bus. And, oh, it’s like saying na rin na Balsy and her sisters randomly chose yellow-colored flowers to put on the massacre site. The flower color was not intentional to promote the yellow fever at such a time. Really, now….

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    Anonylol Reply:

    lol
    Butthurt Reyna Elena is butthurt.

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  • miriam quiamco
    Miriam Quiamco wrote on 29 August, 2010, 8:08

    miriam quiamco

    The Chinese authorities are particularly very protective of foreigners living or visiting China. It is part of their grand strategy to invite FDIs, and obviously, the image of a country that is safe and stable politically and welcoming to foreigners is good for the economy as well. Economic growth is the overriding goal of the Chinese state and anything that stands in the way gets annihilated. Apparently, the authorities are not as swift and judicious when it comes to crimes committed against fellow Chinese. But when economic interests are threatened, the state is determined to act not to jeopardize the stated economic goals of the country.

    In fact, corruption is tolerated to a certain extent, and from what I have gathered, corruption is quite rampant in China but, when the economy suffers because of a corrupt official not checking standards of a manufacturing company because of bribes, and relaxing regulations due to kickbacks, then, no matter how high in the government hierarchy that official is, he will be executed. To me, this is barbaric justice, but I admire the single-mindedness of the Chinese in pursuing economic development. I wish the Philippines would be one in training its resources, moral, psychological, physical, legal, intellectual to develop the country economically, so that once and for all, our people will break loose from the feudal shackles that have imprisoned them for so long. Economic growth is everything, it doesn’t matter that there is inequality, China has worst inequality in Asia, but the state keeps growing the economy, and the peasantry is experiencing unprecedented rise in their living standards. I wish the country would continue to grow economically just like under PGMA and the trickle down effect to the lower classes will turn into a more palpable presence in the poorer segment of the population. I wish the recent incident will not deter more tourist arrivals and CGMA is right, heads should roll from this incident and it is time the government should professionalize our law enforcement agencies, by first of all giving them a pay rise, training and educating them properly and periodically reminding them of their duty to promote economic development in the country.

    But first, our law enforcers should feel the state care enough for them as human beings with families to support so that they are not tempted to be used by criminal elements in our land. Go for Gibo Teodoro’s vision of professionalizing the bureaucracy, it is about time we realize, the members of our bureaucracy need to get serious with their task of implementing laws, they should realize the importance of their role in our hot pursuit of economic development. I think we can do it, but I dread what is yet to come with the current incompetent leadership in the country.

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    Shaddap Reply:

    A New Zealander acquaintance I met years ago says that she visited China back in the late 80′s and she and a few other Western friends rode on a train that went from one city to another.

    At some point, she felt that lost her one of her bags which had some of her money inside, so she approached one of the train conductors about the fact that couldn’t find her bag. She described it, and luckily, she had a picture with her holding she same bag. At some point, when the train arrived at the next station, there were police waiting – the conductor told the train driver to radio the next station to get a police detachment to search the train. So no one was allowed to get off the train while the search was happening. Obviously, the picture that showed what the bag looked like was passed around among the policemen.

    Suddenly, they found the bag in the possession of a really suspicious looking guy would was really nervous. They interrogated him and they looked inside the bag (she told them what was in it) and it was clear that he really stole it. (He kept saying it was his, when clearly, everything matched how she described it.) The guy just wouldn’t admit it, but since it was obvious, he was taken outside to some distance…

    …then shots were heard.

    My acquaintance felt guilty that a man had been summarily executed for stealing her bag.

    But the conductor, who spoke some English told her: “Here in China, anyone who harms foreigners is an Enemy of the State.”

    That was before Tiananmen, of course, and maybe now China is a lot more “Western” in its treatment of misdemeanors like petty theft against foreigners. But I heard anyone who tries to hurt foreigners, to this day, gets really punished.

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  • Michael wrote on 29 August, 2010, 8:15

    It’s all bad. If you’re interested in how the debacle is playing out here in Vancouver, check out this link:

    http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/commentary/2010/08/28/where-lay-blame-manila-hostage-debacle-everywhere

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    mel Reply:

    @ Michael

    It is really a shame. The article is right. The Philippine president has no shame. We have to shoulder the consequences for electing an incompetent leader.

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  • Ryunken wrote on 29 August, 2010, 9:29

    That is definitely true and I completely agree on that!

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  • innagadda54 wrote on 29 August, 2010, 12:00

    Naive Patriotism is at it again. To the point that it’s racial. How many times do you hear of severed (insert body part here) found. “Let’s hope it’s not pinoy!” For me the cause of evil is the mentality “basta pinoy da best” which is in it’s core racial and rings of the sense of entitlement that causes mediocrity and the inability to compete.

    Don’t support something because it’s pinoy, support it because it’s good. Then we will get ahead.

    Sting says “we share the same biology regardless of ideology.”

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    The Philippine Guild Reply:

    unfortunately for the 60% of the Filipino voting public (and some more who were not accounted for — non-voters and those who failed to vote), if it’s yellowish, it must be good.

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  • mel wrote on 29 August, 2010, 14:17

    Thanks, benignO for pointing this out.

    Comparing the hostage-taking to other incidents is a denial, that is, refusal of unpleasant reality.

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  • bertwilpc wrote on 29 August, 2010, 14:55

    It’s actually NOT comparing apples-to-oranges. Why?
    The end result of both events are DEAD TOURISTS.

    There are also parallelisms, like how media/government handled the situation.
    Though its TRUE that the government rather failed (to put it bluntly) to mitigate the circumstance, what would you have done?

    The PNP are actually not ready to handle tough hostage situations because Filipinos are mostly non-violent people. To make matters worse, the victimizer is a police!

    So, its easy to point fingers. But this line of thinking isn’t fair nor constructive.
    Madali ang mamuna ng mga mali sa iba, pero dapat punahin rin ang sarili.

    @Miriam Quiambao:
    “I wish the country would continue to grow economically just like under PGMA and the trickle down effect to the lower classes will turn into a more palpable presence in the poorer segment of the population.” — Ma’am, let’s not forget how the REAL state of the economy was UNDISCLOSED from the Filipino people, and those numerous shady deals.
    But I do agree with your sentiments when you cite Gibo’s competence.

    @Reyna Elena: Sir, I don’t think there is anything wrong with re-posting an article. Most of the ideas nowadays are not original after all. It is, however, important to cite the reference as you pointed out.

    @benignO:
    Sir, your “the mostly half-witted efforts” and “apologist-cum-triumphalist ” comments are character assassinations. If this is our style to get “hits” on your page, its quite effective. But not all readers are dullards. And I suggest renaming your website from “antipinoy” to just plain “antiP-noy” in that case.

    Good day. Mabuhay ang mabuting Pinoy!

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    Jay Reply:

    @bertwil

    You seem to be missing the concept of responsibility and accountancy, which many of the pinoy apologists seem to take the side on.

    The PNP are actually not ready to handle tough hostage situations because Filipinos are mostly non-violent people. To make matters worse, the victimizer is a police!

    So, its easy to point fingers. But this line of thinking isn’t fair nor constructive.
    Madali ang mamuna ng mga mali sa iba, pero dapat punahin rin ang sarili.

    Oh so no other country is as non-violent as the Philippines? I’m calling you on your racial stereotype there! See how it works both ways but in the end, its still just as bad. So what if the perpetrator is a police? Fact of the matter is the Law enforcement and government authorities in ANY COUNTRY are suppose to do their job which is to enforce peace and order when a crisis breaks out! The reason why there would be peace and order more so in other countries is because the laws are enforced and the everyone does their part, not because its ethnically related.

    So, its easy to point fingers. But this line of thinking isn’t fair nor constructive.
    Madali ang mamuna ng mga mali sa iba, pero dapat punahin rin ang sarili.

    Madali dahil halata nga na hindi nila ginagawa trabaho nila! Mahirap ba maintindihan yun? Pucha binabayaran nyo nga sila (government at pulis) bilang sa taxes tapos tatanggapin nyo ang ginawa nilang kapalpakan?
    It is fair because people aren’t being responsible and accountable for the positions of power then hold! Unless you forgot what the government and law enforcement is suppose to do in society.

    Sir, your “the mostly half-witted efforts” and “apologist-cum-triumphalist ” comments are character assassinations

    Or just a way to ignore the real issue of the inferiority complex that the pinoy culture permeates, but tries to hide it with manufactured nationalism and pride. Last I checked, you can’t take pride on something that is an accident.

    Though its TRUE that the government rather failed (to put it bluntly) to mitigate the circumstance, what would you have done?

    The complete opposite of what has already been done, so the consequences can at least be altered for the better. Oh and actually seek the problem out head on instead of focusing on lesser details like Mendoza’s actions and the harsh reactions of the Chinese. The means certainly did not justify the ends in part of the Philippine side of things.

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    bertwilpc Reply:

    @Jay,

    Have you been actually in a PNP police station? Most headquarters are GROSSLY ill-equipped, poorly maintained, and seemingly deteriorating.

    The reality is the PNP CAN’T be relied on 100%.. which is why it is plainly UNFAIR to blame the current president (bearly on his 4th month in office) for the sins of those before him.

    But knowing such weakness is a starting point of evolution.

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    bertwilpc Reply:

    that should be “barely”

    So the point of this article is to highlight the incompetence of:
    1) the president
    2) the PNP
    3) the media

    What then?

    BongV

    BongV Reply:

    BongV

    Knowing what happens when incompetent people are in charge – in the coming elections – should people vote for another incompetent?

    Fooled once by Macoy, fooled again by Cory, fooled again by Estrada, fooled again by GMA, fooled again by Aquino. Meanwhile we let Raul Roco and Dick Gordon to waste.

    Remember – fool me once, shame on you, fool me five times? :lol: :lol: :lol: I seem to be missing something :lol:

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    ChinoF

    ChinoF Reply:

    ChinoF

    Note that there is an admission: they sent the wrong forces. The ones sent were the ones that were ill-equipped and ill-trained.

    But there’s a Special Action Force trained just for this. Those in the bus were foreign nationals. The police should’ve sent the best. They didn’t.

    Politicking caused the “lousy” boys to be sent. If the SAF were sent in, it could have been a different story.

    The president still has to take responsibility because it is part of his duty to see to it that foreign nationals are safe on his soil. It’s also his duty to speak to the political representatives of nationals who are in danger. He failed in both. He even has to keep the right composure (being serious, not smiling) over the grim topic. Again, fail. He has to take responsibility. He is the commander after all of all the army and the police.

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    ChinoF

    ChinoF Reply:

    ChinoF

    What then? In the end, charter change will bring about the necessary changes to ensure that this stupidity doesn’t happen again. Of course, that is one of AP’s advocacies.

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    Jay Reply:

    @bertwil

    The reality is the PNP CAN’T be relied on 100%.. which is why it is plainly UNFAIR to blame the current president (bearly on his 4th month in office) for the sins of those before him.

    You are not the first one I’ve said this to, but president has another title bestowed to him known as Commander in chief of all the armies in the country. True the PNP/SWAT is unreliable despite being paid the taxes because nobody has made a big stink about it, up until someone made the wrong decision to let them handle a situation they were way over their heads in.

    Did you not realize that the Special Action Forces was on standby in Manila that time? The same SAF that GMA used in Mindanao against the Abu-Sayaf? Practically trained by the SAS, who have experience against anti-terrorist and hostage situations? The President has ACCESS TO THEM and under his command, can take control of the SITUATION! And the hostage situation happened in MANILA! Not in the mountain of mindanao but in Noy’s Backyard in the NCR!!

    And you really ARE an idiot to believe Noynoy’s blame game! This problem happened now and under his watch! He was responsible for the outcome considering he didn’t do his role to get back at the HK officials when they tried to contact (don’t believe what the media are trying to spin about his lack of awareness), take control of the situation which is practically in his close proximity against the inept Police Force with his authority and play politics with foreign relations if he must.

    There is no excuse in defending his lack of initiative and poor diplomatic showing with the HK officials because that is all in the responsibilities of the President of the Philippines. He failed as a leader because he himself is way over his head in what his job is supposed to be, much like the PNP.

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    Hyden Toro Reply:

    Another Blame Game Minion/Player let loose, by Noynoy Aquino. How much does Noynoy Aquino paying you? You can see the Mindsets of these Yellow Hordes:
    (1) they think the same like Robots. (2) they believe that other people think and have reasoning like them. and (3) they are self righteous. Our Way and our Reasonings are the whole Absolute Truth. The effects of 30 years of BrainWashing. EDSA Myth results. Like how the North Koreans think…they believe Kim Il Jong is a demigod… :lol:

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    ChinoF

    ChinoF Reply:

    ChinoF

    Dead tourists is the only “parallelism.” Beyond that, there’s nothing more.

    The killer in the 2005 incident was sentenced to death. It wasn’t a bungled rescue operation. It was out in the open, the killer was completely wild (mentally ill) and fast… totally different situation. And it wasn’t telecast for all to see, which is right. There was no police around, it wasn’t even a hostage situation. And justice was already served.

    In the bus hostage crisis… there, it was a hostage-taking. The killer was contemplating his moves, He had to be killed immediately as part of rescue procedures, not waiting on death row where he has time to contemplate on his actions (that’s justice). The mistakes were telecast for all to see, and the government acted badly on it (Not letting Tsang speak to PNoy and the latter’s smiling). It was a national incident everyone focused on. There was lots of police, unlike in Tiananmen! And since so many people involved fouled up, including the highest office on the government, there is every reason for the Hong Kongers and other people around the world to be mad at our country – our country’s dysfunctional nature cost their nationals’ lives.

    The writer of the Madrigal murder article has the wrong premise. She believes that China also owes the Philippines just as we owe China. Wrong. Justice was already served for the 2005 murder, and it was properly kept under wraps. We owe China for the greater number of lives lost and the incredible stupidity that was shown in the actions of the police, government, media and everyone involved. It’s easy to point fingers, but there you go… the article’s writer (who I heard was former beauty queen Aurora Pijuan) was pointing fingers… back at China! Very wrong!

    Oh yes, one technical detail. Since the Madrigal murders happened in Tiananmen, that’s China’s jurisdiction, not Hong Kong’s. So the writer aimed the article at the wrong target.

    Don’t forget the South Korean who was killed on the same day as the bus hostage crisis.

    The Philippines owes the world big time. And the world will collect.

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    Jay Reply:

    @ChinoF

    Thanks for clarifying the distinction: Justice WAS served. Of course justice is not biased or emo so we’ll have certain Pinoys to try claim it so.

    Can the Philippines say justice was served with the bus-hostage incident? No because those with the responsibility don’t want to be held accountable for such outward incompetence.

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    Jay Reply:

    Oh and I forgot to include this but to counter your statement

    The end result of both events are DEAD TOURISTS.

    Benign0 explicitly says this (so obvious): The Philippine Government, the Philippine Police, and the Philippine Media, were all involved in and actively influencing the Mendoza hostage incident as it transpired. This is FACT! Anyone else trying to deny it without putting up a convincing logical statement or by going with puny contradictions, opinions are honestly clueless and deserving of Benign0′s claim on those people. Because just like your observations, you are terrific at seeing obvious, but cannot even fathom the meanings behind the ideas.

    Besides, with your little sick infatuation with the death aspect, you sir seem to forget that in those hours the hostage occurred, there certainly were MANY and MULTITUDE of chances to have those tourists saved. Their lives rested on the competence and the decisions the authorities that were acting (PNP) and could have acted (SAF, P.Noy). If humility existed, those in authority would be beating themselves up for having people die on their watch than making excuses and passing the blame to others.

    This is all pretty simple to understand, except for those who are looking at the wrong places for their answers. That includes Reyna Elena trying to play up the status-quo with how much dirt can you sligh reasoning.

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    The Philippine Guild Reply:

    so far, the mabuting pinoy is half-buried in mud. thank you, President Noynoy and the bad-ass Filipinos for representing us well. August 2010 only proves that we used to walk the straight path.

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  • Hyden Toro wrote on 29 August, 2010, 15:21

    The coward and incompetent President Noynoy Aquino’s Public Relation Machine; tries to justify the Wickedness of the gross negligence and leadership irresponsibility of their master Noynoy Aquino. Comparing the random homicide; to a Hostage Incident. In the random homicide: you cannot do anything about it. The Chinese killer, just went berserk. In the recent Hostage Incident: there were ways to save the Hostages. Can you see, how the Aquino Media Minions try to sanitize, and remove the blame from Noynoy Aquino? Thru the:(1) Putting the blame on the Police. (2) Carandang’s interview, absolving the responsibility of his Master. (3) Blaming it on Police corruption, by the disappearance of funds. The Premises of the issue here are just simple: (1) Did the coward and incompetent President, neglectful and remiss in his duties as Commander in Chief? (2) Where was he, during the Hostage Incident? (3) Why did he not give the hour-to-hour briefings to the Governor of Hong Kong about the situation? and, (4) Why was he Smiling during the afterward briefing to the Press? Whether, we have a President who is now Out of his Bonker. Or, a President who is cowering in fear at the time of crissis; are the Points to be dealt with here. We really have a problem of leadership in the Executive Branch of government…8O BLAME GAME, ANYONE?

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    The Philippine Guild Reply:

    ang nakakatawa pa dyan, their attempts at keeping President Noynoy squeaky clean and always on a shining pedestal is to ascertain that he represents the image of the good Philippines pero what they’re always ending up with is the exact opposite pa — a troubled Philippines. This Philippines did not take initiative to call an Asian neighbor during the crisis.This Philippines smiled during the press con for the Quirino Grandstand massacre to the disgust of the other nations. Thank you, President Noynoy for representing us abroad! Kaya pala ayaw mong mag-travel abroad kasi maybe you have no sense of diplomatic relations and management skills.

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    Hyden Toro Reply:

    If you build your reputation on Myths and Lies; like the Aquinos. This is what happens. Once you are Tested in a Crissis. Your Lies and Myths cannot help you, anymore. You must confront and solve the Crissis, on your True Ability; not on what your Public Relation Media has built for you. So, your Barks, becomes a Whimper. With you Nowhere to be seen; or to be contacted… You run away from the Crissis, with your Tails between your legs. Truth no matter, how degraded, pulverized and hidden, will always come out. Because Truth comes from our Divine Source of this Universe…. 8)

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  • bertwilpc wrote on 29 August, 2010, 16:15

    “accountability” how ironic.

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    Jay Reply:

    Is the irony due to your lack of understanding of it, or your utter denial of it?

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  • Jay wrote on 29 August, 2010, 16:58

    For those who are being apologists in regards of the president’s actions, it is said that adversity is the measure of anyones’ abilities. AP has been quick to note the small things but nothing said more about adversity in Noynoy’s 3 months in office than the bus hostage incident. It was his opportunity, if not just his responsibility to show whatever leadership abilities he had to the people who should expect more out of him.

    Sadly, the people who support him and can’t recognize who to blame are just as devoid of any abilities when they themselves are faced with adversity. Because they saw the same qualities in the president they claim as their leader. Thus they pass blame on to others with simplistic reasoning like what would you have done in their place? or you be the [insert authority figure] and deal with it then!. Because deep down, they too fear the adversity and trying to bring out what their best should be. So instead they accept the path of mediocrity instead.

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    Hyden Toro Reply:

    Rationalizations of the coward and incompetent, Noynoy Aquino; to confront the Crissis will never help any of them. What Stinks, will never be Sanitized by the best Public Relation Media people. People have eyes to see. They have minds to think. These are the factors that the Aquino Yellow Hordes cannot accept. They finally realize that their Dog, who was good on barking during the Presidential election. Had Run Away from a Crissis, barking in Whimpers. With Tails between his legs… :lol:

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  • iampinoy wrote on 29 August, 2010, 17:15

    i just want to say something.. hope this wont offend you guys.. we know where our mistakes are.. we feel sorry too for the loss of lives of your countrymen.. who would have like to happen that anyway? no one indeed.. just to save my countrymen from all humiliations and from all the rocks you’ve been throwing to us, THERE are 7 BILLION plus PEOPLE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND THE MISTAKE OF ONE OR FEW PEOPLE DOESNT MEAN THAT ALL OF THE FILIPINOS ARE THE SAME… apple and orange are the same.. they are both fruit but of the diff kind but grow on the same soil.. we are all the same, we are all human. everyone of us commits mistakes.. who’s perfect anyway? we never comdemn anyone of you. we never even put up a site like this.. or we should have but we didnt because we have the word RESPECT and LOVE.. the pain lingers i know, the scars are there.. You hate Filipinos for the Hostage Fiasco earlier this week, right? Then should I hate the Chinese people for the Lead Poisoning and Melamine contamination? Where not 8, but hundreds, maybe even thousands have suffered? Is it right to blame a whole nation for a mistake of one man? If you do then you are most certainly DENSE! I don’t want to argue about anything. I’m just stating my take on things.

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    Jay Reply:

    . just to save my countrymen from all humiliations and from all the rocks you’ve been throwing to us, THERE are 7 BILLION plus PEOPLE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND THE MISTAKE OF ONE OR FEW PEOPLE DOESNT MEAN THAT ALL OF THE FILIPINOS ARE THE SAME…

    Are you on drugs? 100 million is worst and you want 7 billion? If you are referring to the outrage of the Chinese, you missed the point since they were originally angry at the Philippine government, the few people that DO represent the country, and their complete incompetence and lack of action towards the entire ordeal. The added pictures of the pinays in front of the site just added more unnecessary fuel to the fire.

    apple and orange are the same.. they are both fruit but of the diff kind but grow on the same soil.. we are all the same, we are all human. everyone of us commits mistakes.. who’s perfect anyway?

    The issue isn’t perfection. The issue is competence! Why are you trying to reach for something so high up in a tree when you haven’t built a ladder or learned to climb it?

    we never comdemn anyone of you. we never even put up a site like this..

    Many here are Pinoys who are sick and tired of the same old song and dance. The site is a mirror that reflects the certain things Pinoys like to hide about themselves.

    . You hate Filipinos for the Hostage Fiasco earlier this week, right? Then should I hate the Chinese people for the Lead Poisoning and Melamine contamination? Where not 8, but hundreds, maybe even thousands have suffered? Is it right to blame a whole nation for a mistake of one man?

    Want to know something? The difference, much like the article discussed about is that JUSTICE IS SERVED! You are talking about status-quo when the article is trying to go beyond that and realize on doing what was right! Justice certainly has NOT been served yet in terms of the bus hostage incident yet you act like it has been. Much like apples and oranges, as much as both are fruit there is a DISTINCTION. Your problem is lumping everything to the lowest common denominator and being satisfied that way.

    I don’t want to argue about anything. I’m just stating my take on things.

    You have nothing to argue with your emo based take on things. So if you don’t mind, I adjusted things for you so that you may be enlightened and educated on the events that your emotions were easily influenced on. The Chinese have all the right to be angry and if you still can’t understand why, the problem is not theirs but your total ignorance of the whole issue.

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    mel Reply:

    @iampinoy

    I think that is the main problem of the Filipino mind. “I do not want to argue about anything.”

    That is very false. AP do not hate Filipinos. It is the other way around. If you want to change this country, start by being aware of the problem. What can we do so as to avoid those mistakes? Argue when it is needed. It is very important to let them know and hear of the people’s views so that those in the government and the citizens will be aware of their shortcomings and prevent such things to happen in the future.

    This is the saddest part: The mistakes of an incompetent leader make the whole nation suffer the consequences, but you are “just stating your take on things”!

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    BongV

    BongV Reply:

    BongV

    if you don’t want to be humiliated then SHAPE UP. simple ‘ritmetik

    shove your emo crap

    if you want to blame the chinese might as well blame the Americans for outsourcing it to the chinese. Oh no, blame the American consumers for wanting cheaper prices. Pinoys are blameless because have no idea of cheaper prices, after all they grew knowing only high prices from oligarch companies in the Philippines – they are totally clueless. And since they are ignorant – it excuses them…. :lol: :oops:

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    The Philippine Guild Reply:

    We are not a utopia to be enjoying the ideals of nations holding hands and wearing traditional costumes. Check out the issue of image and nation-building article that I posted on my blog’s Politics page >> http://thephilguild.weebly.com/1/post/2010/08/5-things-about-the-quirino-grandstand-massacre.html Reality is what one does affects another and there is the existence of a collective sensibility. Kaya nga ang ABS-CBN ay may AKO ANG SIMULA credo kasi they are aware of the micro and macro of things. Unfortunately, their hypocrisy is getting in the way of that credo. Plus, we’ve seen how the single acts of individuals like the smiling President Noynoy, the smiling students and the smiling SOCO affected Philippine stocks, Philippine tourism, and Philippine politics in world affairs. The word “represent” is real, you know. Venus Raj is aware of this.

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    ChinoF

    ChinoF Reply:

    ChinoF

    What we’re saying here is that the culture of our country led to the mistake of one man, so it is responsible. The government, police and media had the chance to avert disaster, but they failed. The way they acted even added reason for China to be angry at us. We’re not blaming the whole country per se, but Mendoza certainly symbolized the country’s bad state of affairs (which was brought about by its own people, government and citizens alike!). The idiotic thing is that people want to turn it back to China. We wronged them, they didn’t wrong us here. So Ms. Pijuan is wrong for asking justice from China for a murder that had already been served justice. We’re asking for too much already. It also seems connected to the observation that Filipinos love to escape responsibility and solutions to problems, and want to keep problems to make themselves look “kawawa” and ask for dole-outs from other countries.

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  • Miauw Ming
    Miauw Ming wrote on 29 August, 2010, 18:36

    Miauw Ming

    I really don’t know where the comparison between the Hostage Taking vs Madrigal Murder (or Maguindanao Massacre for that matter ). Sure a lot of people dying in the end.

    But the biggest difference between those two is that… THEY HAVE 12 HOURS OF TIME TO SAVE THOSE TOURISTS!!! With plenty of moments and opportunities.

    The persons in Madrigal Murder were already dead before the authority could do anything about it. Same goes for the Maguindanao Massacre. (Although what’s more amazing Ampatuan’s capture didn’t turn into an all out war. It could easily have been a bloodbath. But that’s another story.)

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  • ako ang simula ng pagtatago wrote on 29 August, 2010, 20:22

    hahaha. Stupid. Hahaha.

    http://www.tribuneonline.org/commentary/20100830com2.html

    dumb is the word. Hahaha.

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    brianitus Reply:

    Someone should tell the president to sack his communications group.

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  • Anonylol wrote on 30 August, 2010, 1:46

    Oh boy. I can’t wait for someone to shove this one in my face and go on about how “Oh, kala mo kung sino magsalita ang mga Intsik sila rin pala.”
    Would just saying “twelve hours” and sneering be a bit too cheeky?

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  • JUANDELACRUZ wrote on 30 August, 2010, 13:55

    If this article proves anything, it is that the traitors on this site love every other race other than their own, why is why they are siding with the Chekwas against Pinoys, assuming of course that they are not Checkwas themselves and are in fact Pinoys. Or if they are Half-Breeds, we can see to which side they have ultimately decided to throw their lot with so to speak. Well, I guess I can’t be too surpised, what can you expect after all, half-breeds are as a general rule usually the children of foreign losers who struck out in their own countries and local whores who are desperate to social-climb up and gold-dig down away from poverty. Sigh…. You ask me, it is really this sheer and utter lack of love for One’s Own that has always doomed us from the very beginning. After all, if there were no quislings like you in the first place, then the colonizers way back when would never have been able to successfully implement the divide-and-conquer strategy so successfully to such devastating effect.

    [Reply]

    Jay Reply:

    You ask me, it is really this sheer and utter lack of love for One’s Own that has always doomed us from the very beginning.

    No, I don’t like to associate myself with the redneck mentality that you and the rest of the rednecks in the country have. It is also the same mentality that never gave the nation a chance since you can’t get your minds out of the colonial times.

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    BongV

    BongV Reply:

    BongV

    Anti-Pinoy Exhibit #1 :lol: – It’s a question of who is right and who is wrong – not a question of ethnicity.

    If this article proves anything, it is that the traitors on this site love every other race other than their own, why is why they are siding with the Chekwas against Pinoys, assuming of course that they are not Checkwas themselves and are in fact Pinoys.

    Seriously, please describe the “pure-bred” Filipino :lol:

    Or if they are Half-Breeds, we can see to which side they have ultimately decided to throw their lot with so to speak.

    Seriously, please describe the “pure-bred” Filipino :lol:

    Well, I guess I can’t be too surpised, what can you expect after all, half-breeds are as a general rule usually the children of foreign losers who struck out in their own countries and local whores who are desperate to social-climb up and gold-dig down away from poverty.

    Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me four times (Cory, Erap, Arroyo, Noynoy)… shame on…. :lol:

    Sigh…. You ask me, it is really this sheer and utter lack of love for One’s Own that has always doomed us from the very beginning.

    Wow – you think we are as old as the colonizers – should I now say – “There can be only one”

    After all, if there were no quislings like you in the first place, then the colonizers way back when would never have been able to successfully implement the divide-and-conquer strategy so successfully to such devastating effect.

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    palebluedot_ Reply:

    “half-breeds are as a general rule usually the children of foreign losers who struck out in their own countries and local whores who are desperate to social-climb up and gold-dig down away from poverty.”

    oh oh how nice of you to describe half-breeds. baka nakalimutan mo, somewhere sa ancestral tree nang gago mong presidente, may half-breed din dun. kaya pala may tiriring yan presidente mo at ang kapatid nya, produkto pala nang foreign losers at local whores! remember, chekwa middle name nang idolo mo…hinay-hinay, dong!

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    Artemio Reply:

    Eh di naman rin Pure-Breed yung ancestry ng dios mong si Noynoy. Meron rin silang lahing checkwa. Nagkataong bobo lang talaga etong si Noynoy. Wag mong sisihin ang ibang tao kung nabibisto nila ang katangahan nitong si Noynoy.

    Naka-bahag ka pa ba?

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    Jay Reply:

    JUANDELACRUZ just proved he’s a bigot. He hates every other type of people and pinoys in general (from all islands) but loves the pure-bred pinoy which pretty much much kinda doesn’t exist, considering the ethnic origins of Pinoys as well.

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    ChinoF

    ChinoF Reply:

    ChinoF

    Wow, salamat sa demonstration mo ng pagiging isang Pinoy racist. OK, world, just look at this Pinoy racist rant like a Nazi! :lol:

    Wait, he isn’t a Pinoy, he’s a virus.:lol:

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    famous wolf Reply:

    Failippine history 101. The Filipino people are usually have ancestral backgrounds ranging from the east to west.

    Looks like somebody slept through Social Studies and history in general.

    What you smokin’ bro?

    Also, those half breeds are doing better than your pathetic existence. You’re nothing special nor will you ever be. Just trying to keep it real, bro.

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  • brianitus wrote on 30 August, 2010, 21:02

    Reading the comments above and I’ve come upon a conclusion:

    If you haven’t ever seen or heard or read a Pinoy racist, just post a not-so-nice truth about being Filipino and you’ll surely get swarmed by them.

    In any case, even ex-showbiz-turned-politician Isko Moreno sounds better than PNoy right now. Saw him in the news earlier and he said that the current finger-pointing is just creating another situation that will lead to another Rolando Mendoza. So, there you go. From an elected official na rin yan — MAN UP!

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  • bertwilpc wrote on 3 September, 2010, 1:25

    It’s evident and discouraging that most of the comments here are against P-Noy. And who ever take on his side gets shot down, with the eagerness of a bully in a play ground. [Jay, that's you.]

    Do you even consider yourself Filipino? Do you genuinely trust to enlighten other Filipinos minds, or are you just too self-righteous in picking out faults?

    I don’t know the real agenda, but you’ve got to hand it to a real leader to take responsibility, at least in the light of fair play.

    ttp://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20100903-290314/Aquino-takes-responsibility-for-hostage-fiasco

    It’s also quite useless to comment and argue with people who have a clear directive.

    Susmariosep, nasaan ba kayo nakatira? And where else do you think you can stand proud and not be considered a second-class citizen? Have we lost all hope?

    [Reply]

    palebluedot_ Reply:

    dear bertwilpc,

    the moment another imbecile was elected to lead and represent us, all hopes for this country to move forward are lost for the discerning people like us. this hopelessness is much more magnified by the recent epic failure your president has said to have taken responsibility for (now lang?!?).

    if you still can’t see deeper with the emotions we are trying to convey…read more AP articles…

    yours truly,
    one of those who have clear directive… of waking up Filipinos who found solace in sleeping on dirt nest for a very very long time now

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    benign0 Reply:

    @ bertwilpc, you sound quite sure of yourself when you assert that Filipinos are not second or even third class citizens in their own country. Are you absolutely sure that this is so? ;)

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    Jay Reply:

    @benign0

    Pinoys pay first class tax rates, get 3rd rate to $hit social services.

    So yeah, someone doesn’t know what living as second or third class citizens is. Unless you are with the Oligarchs. When you are 5% of the population that own 90% of the resources and land, it is beyond first rate. It is pretty much a monarch living far above his dirty serfs.

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    benign0 Reply:

    @ Jay, indeed. Meanwhile Pinoys living in advanced countries overseas as aliens (legally resident or otherwise) get first class treatment from their host governments. How’s that for irony?

    Kinda begs the question around the whole point of Filipinos coming together to be a “country” to begin with, doesn’t it? :D

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    Jay Reply:

    @bertwil

    Before you proceed any further, let me show you the argument pyramid.

    http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/upload/2009/08/Disagreement-hierarchy.jpg

    If you want to make a more convincing point for your argument, you’d need to go higher than responding to tone, which according to what you claim of my eagerness of a bully in a play ground. I’m serious since you are the one coming off whining when the facts are presented, which when you cannot accept, then try turn it around as self righteous to picking faults.

    And now to tear apart your new argument with your link and this statement:
    It’s also quite useless to comment and argue with people who have a clear directive.

    First off the news is stamped at 9/3/2010, weeks after the incident occurred. If he did have a clear directive as you say, he would have done this all before causing anymore of an uproar for the Chinese and for the Filipinos. In fact, he should direct this apology not at his own people first, but to those whom he besmirched. In his position, if he were to rectify the situation a late apology isn’t appropriate, unless you are a fan of crying over spilled milk. But of course, leave it to a noynoy supporter to create something out of irrationality, considering your poor choice of words to describe his clear directive when he thought about it weeks later when his actions have already condemned him of his inability for any sort of leadership.

    So no, its rather not useless considering you are trying to make it as irrelevant as can be when even the world without bias knows how much of a blunder it is. Just up to you to accept it and not harbor your false ideals of nationality, like what you are trying to target me with. I am a Filipino by birth, not by action. I can stand proud and be any kind of citizen I want as long as I don’t let that emo-ridden, racist based nationalism pollute my mind and believe in strength of the objective truth. Because there is too much of you out there that don’t understand justice.

    And you sir, have certainly lost your mind considering nothing that the PR team or his friends at ABS-CBN and SS surveys can downplay what has already occurred. So come back and try again.

    [Reply]

    Jay Reply:

    So unless Noynoy goes on TV with this and makes a huge announcement, along with making attempts to fix foreign relations with his newly angered friends, it is about as sincere as the many sorries pinoys thinks that it takes to fix a problem and be friends again.

    GMA without any visible evidence of her racketeering or thieving went on T.V., big mole and all, for the record to apologize about the ZTE scandal, just to satiate your kind.

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  • bertwilpc wrote on 3 September, 2010, 12:00

    @Jay: Its quite amusing for you to post the disagreement hierarchy. Many of those levels there are actually your style down to the lowest level, recall what you typed, “… you really ARE an idiot to believe Noynoy’s …” And thats name calling right there, sir.

    Let me just reiterate that it is (as above) quite useless to comment and argue with people who have a clear directive — meaning, if you are out to pounce on the likes of JUANDELACRUZ or IAMPINOY, yes, you have made your claim but have also given a empty boost in the weight of your opinions. Btw, the term ‘whining’ (meaning “a high-pitched complaining cry”) is distinct from “questioning” — which is the interest of my reply. To question (in a civilized manner) and get closer to the truth.. which brings me to (see below)..

    @benignO: I appreciate your caution, “you assert that Filipinos are not second or even third class citizens in their own country. Are you absolutely sure that this is so?” for it draws us closer to the truth. Just imagine the state of those people, now marginalized as they are here, if they were to be in another foreign place.

    Good day to you. Remember how we are admonished: “When hope is lost, everything is lost.”

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    Jay Reply:

    @bertwil

    Well forgive my brazen speech, especially when I’m trying to refute the central argument. I mean what do you call someone who believes the irrationality being spewed out by the leader of the country, besides the words deluded? Fact is you have to be a complete opposite of intelligent in order to believe that BS.

    So you are implying their opinions have more weight, considering all they write about are irrationalities that have no factual basis and and in the pinoy emo perspective and no disregard for nettiquette, also written in a deriding tone as well? Its nice you are trying to soley get at me but others have also offered their bit on the obvious fallacies of those two, which are pretty much amounts to trolling and nothing logical at all.

    Questioning? More like pointless rhetorics. The answers to your questions are all but obvious and already pointed out, except little attacks on my ethnic origin, which is a typical ad-hominem tactic to devalue my argument. It is just up to you to accept the cold hard facts and objective analysis. Quite ironic since regarding the argument hierarchy because while you try make it personal, I’m just stating the obvious as to why you can’t seem to follow it.

    Just imagine the state of those people, now marginalized as they are here, if they were to be in another foreign place.

    If the bring that kind of backwards a$$ cultural mindset to a foreign place, then they will forcibly single themselves out as second-rate-citizens. Then when they realize most of their taxes pay for universal health care, reliable public works and even a national public university education, they look back home and wonder to themselves why they can’t have these things over there. Because all the people do is cling for hope like some holy order when they don’t make the effort to look for the answers to become hopeful.

    If I were you, I’d stop with your pseudo-intellectual claims You can’t develop your arguments that way and you constantly back yourself to a corner where you have to whine about the tone of how the objective argument is being conveyed to you.

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    bertwilpc Reply:

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  • bertwilpc wrote on 4 September, 2010, 10:25

    That is your opinion. :0)

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  • Ronald Montemayor wrote on 11 September, 2010, 17:25

    @bertwilpc

    Stupid is what stupid does.- Forrest Gump

    It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
    O baka gusto mo Tagalugin ko.

    “Napakahirap makakita ang taong nagbubulag-bulagan”.

    AP also offers solutions, if they were racist they’d simply point out our incompetence and laugh and insult., just like Floyd Mayweather Sr. But their arguments actually have basis.
    The pro-Aquino sites are actually much worse. Any kind of negative comment is not only rabidly attacked , but also censored.

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